Who's for soke ?

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Who's for soke ?

Post  CAGE FIGHTER on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:36 pm

Hello everyone at the I.B.A. I see from your Forum that the miscreant has gone quiet.
One of the reasons I took up MMA was because of the warts and wazpaps who inhabit the illustrious halls of Japanese Martial Arts, the number of exceptions I can count off my two hands, Milner and Johnson being two of them who could translate Karate moves into practical fighting systems for the street.
Now if you claim to be practicing Japanese Karate/Jiu-Jitsu then you must adhere to the whole package, not pick the bits and pieces that suit you and ignore the rest.
For example, inherent in the Japanese systems is the notion of Sempei/Kohai, these are not just terms to imply who is the oldest, youngest, highest grade or holds the most magnificent title, but is simply based upon who has remained loyal to his Instructor/Dojo over the longest unbroken period, itís a time issue and everyone I know in the Martial Arts scene of the U.K. Know where they stand in terms of seniority, irrespective of their so called grades, you should all know who were the first, second, third generation Karateka of this country and their seniority and status far eclipses any notional grade or title.
Speaking of titles I see that the term Soke is being used by certain individuals, now this term has no relevance in the Japanese Martial Arts, and is treat as a joke by all the high ranking Japanese Instructors, take a look at these so called Soke clubs and see if you can spot any of the major high rank Japanese names amongst the lists, if they are not there then why arenít they, ??.
For a fuller explaination then click on the link below to learn more.

http://www.koryu.com/library/wbodiford1.html

For a reality check then have a look at Steve Morrisís web site, link below:

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/

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SOKE!!

Post  sen-sei on Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:41 pm

Sōke is a Japanese term that means "the head family [house].In the realm of Japanese traditional arts, it is used synonymously with the term iemoto.Thus, it is often used to indicate "headmaster" (or sometimes translated as "head of the family" or even "grand master".) The English translation of sōke as "grand master" is not a literal translation but it does see use by some Japanese sources. It can mean one who is the leader of any school or the master of a style, but it is most commonly used as a highest level Japanese title, referring to the singular leader of a school or style of martial art. The term, however, is not limited to the genre of martial arts.

Sōke is sometimes mistakenly believed to mean "founder of a style" because many modern sōke are the first generation headmasters of their art (shodai sōke), and are thus both sōke and founder. However, the successors to the shodai sōke are also sōke themselves. Sōke are generally considered the ultimate authority within their art, and have final discretion and authority regarding promotions, curriculum, doctrine, and disciplinary actions. A sōke has the authority to issue a menkyo kaiden certificate indicating that someone has mastered all aspects of his style.

In some schools such as Kashima-Shinryu there is a related position called Shihanke meaning "Instructor Line" that fills a very similar role. A Shihanke is essentially a second training lineage that exists autonomously from the Sōke. In arts where there is a Shihanke and a Sōke it is possible for the position of Sōke to essentially be a hereditary honorary title in the Iemoto system while the Shihanke is responsible for the actual teaching and operation of the school.

The widespread use of the term "sōke" is controversial in the martial arts community. Traditionally it was used very rarely in Japan, typically only for very old martial arts, although it has become a somewhat common term for headmasters of schools created in the last few decades that attempt to reconstruct or emulate older styles of martial arts. Some modern western sōke have used the title Sōke-dai as a title for their assistant as the leader of their school. The Japanese character dai used in this context translates as "in place of." Thus, a shihan-dai, sōke-dai, or sōke-dairi means "someone who teaches in temporary place of" the main instructor, for reasons such as the incapacity of the sōke due to injuries or illnesses. Very Happy

best budo regards, sen-sei

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MENKYO KAIDEN

Post  sen-sei on Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:50 pm

Menkyo kaiden is a Japanese term meaning "license of total transmission." It is a certificate that is granted by a school, ryū, or other organization meaning that the recipient has learned everything that the organization or school can teach, and is licensed to pass on all aspects of his training.

In the older menkyo system of licenses and certificates that predates the more prevalent kyu/dan system of colored belts created by Jigoro Kano in the 19th century for Kodokan judo. The menkyo kaiden is the highest level of license that exists, and the highest rank achievable under the menkyo system. Advancement of rank is not determined by years spent learning, but how well one masters the discipline. However, the transition from menkyo to kaiden may require many years depending on the particular school. A holder of a menkyo kaiden is often, but not always, the de facto successor to the soke of the ryu. Some schools that use the dan system still retain the menkyo kaiden as a method of denoting a successor to the head of the school. Schools that use a strict menkyo system do not make use of the colored belts most commonly seen in the dan systems.

Best budo regards, sen-sei.

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grand titles for wizards and clowns

Post  zanshin89 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:14 am

good on you cage fighter now we have some one with sense on the forum

some of these people who go on a about phil milners words of wisdom should rember one

THAT WAS SHUT UP FOOL

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Too right Zanshin89

Post  Ninj on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:41 am

I've been waiting for a cheeky post from you. Now, if my 'Poirot' head is on, am I right in guessing that you are indeed Mr. D. Allen? :-)

Cheers Best Budo wishes

Ninj
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Re: Who's for soke ?

Post  zanshin89 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:16 am

Ninj wrote:I've been waiting for a cheeky post from you. Now, if my 'Poirot' head is on, am I right in guessing that you are indeed Mr. D. Allen? :-)

Cheers Best Budo wishes

Ninj
yes it is me I think some of our european members also trained with

HANS CHRISTAN ANDERSON

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Fairy Tales

Post  Ninj on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:19 am

zanshin89 wrote:
Ninj wrote:I've been waiting for a cheeky post from you. Now, if my 'Poirot' head is on, am I right in guessing that you are indeed Mr. D. Allen? :-)

Cheers Best Budo wishes

Ninj
yes it is me I think some of our european members also trained with

HANS CHRISTAN ANDERSON

Hi Zanshin

Too true! How are you, you old rogue? :-)

See you on the next course...

Best wishes

Dave
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menkyo kaiden.

Post  josh johnson on Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:07 am

There seems to be an awful lot of interest a lately about O-Sensei Milners, Menkyo kaiden.
Here is a copy of the certificate in Question, the original is on grey parchment paper and held in the I.B.A. archives at the Wakefield Karate & Martial Arts College where it can be viewed at any time.
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Welcome...

Post  Ninj on Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:56 am

Cage Fighter! Nice to have you aboard. We really are getting some great new members, even the A Team's Murdock!

Can't wait for BA to join now!

A big thank you to Hanshi Josh Johnson for the 'Menkyo Kaiden' certificate. There is the proof, right there!

Now let's get back on-track and honour Phil's memory with more photos and anecdotes, or just the IBA in general. That was the family he started and we owe it to all his devotion and hard work to continue his legacy for many, many more years to come. Don't forget, when you follow the Budo path, remember that learning the three 'R's is paramount...

Respect - Respect - Respect.

Yours in Budo

Ninj
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